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fyi
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Subject: 2007 Honda Rincon 680cc 4x4 Dyno Results: Stock, power tip and open baffle | 2006-11-22 14:29:06 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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Here is some information we thought some of you gents might like to see if you're interested. :-)
It was slow around the shop today just before the Holiday, so one of my employees and I decided to strap my new 2007 Honda Rincon 4x4 680cc ATV down to the chassis dyno to see what this thing was really made of. I have no clue as to what these things are rated at from the factory, nor how much power they are supposed to make at the wheels, so I didn't really care what it made- just as long as it pulled something respectable. :-)
We made 3 pulls of each change and recorded the highest reading of each group to try to capture some sort of pull-to-pull accuracy. Also, all pulls were done in second gear to prevent excessive wheel speed and tire pressure was set to 12 psi. for some sort of safety at speed. Maximum engine speed was taken to 6500 RPM for engine/trans. safety, as the break-in oil is still in the engine and 87 octane pump fuel was used. Dyno cell conditions were 49.65* ambient temperature, 29.93 baro. pressure, 38% humidity, and the SAE correction factor was 0.95%.
Anyway...
On the first group of runs, we got a baseline of what this thing is making completely stock, with the exception of the aftermarket stock-size tires on stock-size wheels. I thought it might make a bit more power than that stock, but honestly, I really didn't know what to expect.
The second group of runs were the same as stock, only this time with the stainless steel 2" Exhaust Power Tip we purchased on Ebay installed. The sound is a LOT better, but we didn't expect to see much power gain from this mod and the final numbers proved what we thought. It pretty much made the same power as stock for all practicle purposes. Basically, nothing to write home about or certainly nothing anyone would feel in the seat of their pants...
The third group of runs were the same as stock, only this time the tip was removed completely and the muffler baffle was left wide open. A bit louder sound, but not too bad and only a tiny bit more power than the performance tip from before.
BTW- Does anyone know what these engines are supposed to be rated at? What's the factory engine RPM redline anyway??
We had a real ball playing around with this thing and it was certainly fun to see what she's got! You've got to hand it to the Japanese for building a nearly bullet-proof machine and we'll probably be testing more components later on to see what kind of power this thing can make! WooHoo! :-D
-john
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fyi
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Subject: 2007 Honda Rincon 680cc 4x4 Dyno Results: Stock, power tip and open baffle | 2006-11-22 14:30:22 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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Tried to post pictures of machine on dyno, but the website wouldn't allow pictures larger than 200 kb.... :-(
-john
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fyi
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2006-11-22 17:55:08 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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We went ahead and put the 2" power tip back on and warmed up the machine for another few rounds of testing. This time though, we monitored engine temperatures a little closer to see what engine temps this thing is likes to run at and so we could replicate those temps for each pull for pull data accuracy. The engine seems to hover around 165*-170* at idle and rises to approx. 200* after a full throttle run. I don't know what temps these machines are supposed to run at, but those figures are what we have seen repeatedly so far.
Also, I don't know if this thing is "breaking in" a little better now and "loosening up" from all of this WOT dyno time we've been putting it through, but the power on both sides came up just a tiny bit from before, everything else being equal- WooHoo! (baseline graph added for reference)
Anyway...
We just tested some fuel blends in this thing to see what it liked and didn't like and the results were surprising to us... The engine didn't seem to like the 60/40 blend of Sunoco 104 octane unleaded racing fuel and 87 octane pump fuel nearly as well as just straight 87 fuel that we started out with. Plus, I think it got richer with the race fuel added, since the specific gravity of this brand of racing fuel is about .211 heavier than 87 octane pump fuel and the ECM calibration is dialed in for that type of fuel mix. My guess is that's where the power went... :-)
-john
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topgun
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2006-11-25 11:07:06 |
Posts: 3155
Western, Pennsylvania , USA
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Interesting results. You have now proven the tip really doesn't do anything. I had one on my Rincon for the sound. Didn't figure it helped the power end of things. But it sure sounds nice without being obnoxious. Definitely a nice mod though.
The higher octain fuel burns slower. The reason you switch to it is that when you have a higher compression machine or the timing advanced, you avoid the pre ignition of the fuel. It is known as spark knock or ping. In the case of the stock machine, as your results prove, it is just a waste of money and not needed.
Did you by chance check the A/F mix on any of the runs? I would suspect it is fairly lean to pass government emmissions. An add on box may give you a little more power if it is lean. I'm sure Honda has the timing set up a little retarded for safety reasons too. Unfortunately, there is no way to adjust that due to the complex ECM system they use.
Sounds like you guys had fun. Thanks for sharing your results.
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08 Can Am Renegade, X Machine Shocks, Ricochet Skids, PRP stabilizer, Day Light, Reverse Lights, Can Am Handguards, Ceramic Coated Exhaust and Shields, BRP Bag, Direction 2 Molded Flares.
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fyi
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2006-11-25 22:11:06 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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We did not check the AFR during any of these runs and we won't until we install a stainless steel auxilary air/fuel ratio bung in the head pipe to more accurately measure exhaust gas up near the engine/cylinder head. We do have a tailpipe sniffer tube we could have used in the pipe, but we've found that the farther the AFR sensor is from the engine, the less accurate the data output- not worth the time for bad data.
I do plan on purchasing a high capacity air filter and we intend on completely dialing in the ECM calibration to suit our modifications. We do have binary hex code editor/disassembler-reassembler software here that will disect any type of computer hex code, no matter what it is or who manufacturered it. This is basically the same type of software development tool folks like Dobeck, Dynatek, Dynojet, etc. use to create hand held "programmers" that everyone is used to seeing. Unfortunately, those hand-held boxes only give the end user a small portion of what is totally available within the ECM calibration and that just isn't good enough.. We're going to use this software on the PGM-EFI controller box on this machine to allow us to access every single data cell in the ECM to make necessary calibration changes accordingly- this includes fuel, spark, IAT tables, etc...
We do this type of heavy PCM calibration on custom EFI racing applications for the C5/C6 Corvette, H2 Hummer, GM truck line, drag racing vehicles, etc. as my regular business, so the relatively simple speed-density calibration of this ATV is steam engine technology compared to what we usually deal with everyday, therefore I don't think it will be a road block once we figure it out. Once the unlock seed of the ATV ECM is found to access the code, we're in. :-)
I probably won't be able to do anything until after the Holidays though, as time is a premium around here... It has been interesting and fun though to see what makes this machine tick! ;-)
-john
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Sandrock
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2006-11-25 22:47:49 |
Posts: 1338
North Indio, California , USA
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FYI, thanks for sharing your Dyno results with us all.
I think it is always interesting to see the comparative differences when after market items are installed.
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Marysvale Ride 2005 Yellow King Quad, 2.5 Warn Winch, Back up Light, J&T Water Temp Gauge, K&N Air Filter w/Outerwears Prefilter, Billet Power Tip Exhaust, w/o spark arrester, Red Leather shift knob, Horn, Suzuki Shock Covers over Elka shocks, Black Powder Coated Suzuki Front & Rear Bumpers,Maxxas Maxlite 8 spoke rims, Ducks Unlimited Wetlands
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topgun
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2006-11-30 01:15:19 |
Posts: 3155
Western, Pennsylvania , USA
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It will be interesting to see how you make out with the ECM calibration. No one to date has been able to modify the stock ECM. Dynojet, Dobeck, Dynatec, not a one of them can do it. They have to resort to an add on fuel only module that works in addition to the stock ECM. They cannot modify the stock ECM parameters. In Dynatec's case, they made a complete replacement ECM since they could not unlock the factory one. VDI does the same thing. Nobody makes anything like that for the Rincon. Just the add on fuel device. Teka is the only thing even remotely close to what you are describing and all it can do is change the fuel for a Suzuki, nothing else.
The Suzuki King Quad 700 crowd has been clamoring for new ECM programming or any device to fix the timing problem for over 2 years. Not one company has been able to help them out. The Rincon's problems are far more complex in that the ECM also controls the tranny. So if they can't even get the fuel and timing figured out, the tranny is out of the question. If you posess something to do this, you could make a mint. I think that EFI will become the new standard in the near future on these machines. The first to figure this all out should make out big time. But as of today, not one company has this ability other than the factory engineers.
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08 Can Am Renegade, X Machine Shocks, Ricochet Skids, PRP stabilizer, Day Light, Reverse Lights, Can Am Handguards, Ceramic Coated Exhaust and Shields, BRP Bag, Direction 2 Molded Flares.
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Welder30
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2007-01-02 23:56:27 |
Posts: 166
Piqua, Ohio
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Great post fyi! Like topgun just said the man to break the "failing" trend on these Rincons ECM's will have an early retirement! I will be the first to buy your product!
(so the relatively simple speed-density calibration of this ATV is steam engine technology compared to what we usually deal with everyday)
GIT-R-DONE :-)
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2006 Red Rincon 680 w/ 26" XTR's on Type 6 ITP Wheels, Warn 2.5ci Winch, Kimpex Front Bumper, Kolpin Fuel Pack,"ZRX1100", 2006 Suzuki SV650, & the boys & girls KX125, PW50, Polaris Scrambler 50
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fyi
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2007-01-03 10:29:40 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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I doubt I'll be able to have an early retirement doing this stuff, as working with ATV's are fun side-hobby of mine that gets me away from my regular job.. :) If I can produce something to make my machine run better and can provide the same thing to the masses to cover my costs, than that's good enough for me. I'll keep plunking away... :)
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Welder30
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2007-01-03 10:49:06 |
Posts: 166
Piqua, Ohio
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Heck ya jyi! Thats the attitude man! Trust me we're all sitting here with our fingers crossed as we read this lol.
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2006 Red Rincon 680 w/ 26" XTR's on Type 6 ITP Wheels, Warn 2.5ci Winch, Kimpex Front Bumper, Kolpin Fuel Pack,"ZRX1100", 2006 Suzuki SV650, & the boys & girls KX125, PW50, Polaris Scrambler 50
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fyi
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2007-01-03 20:08:35 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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LoL!
john
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fyi
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Subject: Pump fuel vs. race fuel test.... | 2007-01-03 20:13:59 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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BTW- My machine just turned 112 miles on the clock and it's ready for it's first service, adjustments, fluid changes, etc. It's still running strong and once I'm done with all of the service stuff, I'll strap it down to the dyno again to see if she makes any more power now after it's loosened up a little from the intial break-in. :-)
john
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fyi
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Subject: Further dyno results | 2007-01-15 15:29:42 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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Here's the dyno graph I spoke of that I wanted to post for those interested. I've basically arrived at the first service interval of the machine and it now has approx. 130 miles on it and approx. 31 hrs. to date. I've serviced the stock air filter, changed the oil/filter using Honda parts and HP4 non-moly 10w40 Honda engine oil, changed and gapped the NGK sparkplug, adjusted the valves, changed the differential lubricants to Redline 75/140w synthetic and topped off the rest of the fluids.
We made 3 pulls at full engine temperature (approx. 198*) and recorded the highest reading of the group to try to capture pull-to-pull accuracy. Also, all pulls were done in second gear to prevent excessive wheel speed and tire pressure was set to 12 psi. for safety at speed. Maximum engine speed was taken to 6500 RPM for engine/trans. safety and 93 octane pump fuel was used. Dyno cell conditions were 58.94* ambient temperature, 29.64 baro. pressure, 68% humidity, and the SAE correction factor was 0.98%.
Anywhoo,
Basically, the weather conditions were worse for us now for this test, than they were when we first put this thing on the dyno the first time a few weeks ago.
As you can see, the peak power didn't change much from when the machine was brand new, to what it is now. However, if you look closer, you'll see that the power curve is much broader and makes that power longer in the RPM band now, than when the machine was new. All of these positive increases occured despite the poorer weather condition we had this time, compared to the first time it was on the rollers. This suggests that as the engine loosens up, it produces power a lot further on in the powerband.
WooHoo!
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turbogrits
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Subject: rincon muffler mod | 2007-01-18 14:18:33 |
Posts: 13
southeast, South Dakota , USA
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i have a 2007 rincon with 53 miles. i got that 2" tip off ebay also but i felt that wasnt enough. so in my mind instead of spending $250-$350 on what i call a stainless steel glass pack i took of the stock muffler took a plasma cutter and cut off the angled end cap and completly gutted the muffler welded the end cap back on and put the 2" tip back on.one thing i do know is there is a lot of restrictive crap in there and it is quite a bit louder but just at idle it is very notacible how much more ekhaust is pushing out. i have yet to ride it to see if it is going to hurt or help performance.who knows that exhaust banging around inside that big tin can might be bad, or less restriction might be good. i'm going riding with the king quads,grizzlys,800 sportsman,and carburated rincons this weekend. is this mod smart or stupid?
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fyi
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Subject: rincon muffler mod | 2007-01-18 14:22:40 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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Beats me, never done it. :-) Good luck and let us know your results either way.
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turbogrits
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Subject: rincon horse power | 2007-01-18 15:06:50 |
Posts: 13
southeast, South Dakota , USA
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take your seat off and look at the emissions sticker by your tool pouch. mine says 38.5 bhp whatever that means for a power rating?
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turbogrits
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Subject: rincon muffler mod | 2007-01-21 21:41:25 |
Posts: 13
southeast, South Dakota , USA
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well with above muffler mods i also removed the snorkel on the air intake tube. i drag raced 2 different 660 grizlys, 650 kaw, 700 king quad, and an 05 rincon these wheelers were all bone stock. between all the various drags i could get them out of the hole 2-5 wheeler lenghts and hold it. this thing is really responsive but when we ran real hard on the river with 4" of snow it seemed like it was kind of blubbery on the top end. dont know if its rich or lean or if the muffler is messing it up, but this was only trying to run hard for a long time wide open under heavy load and i'm positive it wasnt the rev limiter. guess ill have to run it hard down the road, shut it down and pull the plug and see how its burnin. by the way this thing comes with a #5 ngk plug in the book it says for high speed riding put in a #6. is this hotter or colder? i really enjoy tryin to get all the ponies out of these things with cheap simple mods but its hard to tell without a dyno. i have 105 miles and 13 hours on gonna change oil and give er hell again next weekend. any other input would be greatly appreciated!!!
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fyi
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Subject: rincon muffler mod | 2007-01-22 09:08:00 |
Posts: 14
Mid-West
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The #6 sparkplug is hotter by one step.
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TuffEnuff
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Subject: rincon muffler mod | 2007-01-24 17:50:16 |
Posts: 624
Oklahoma City, OK, Oklahoma , USA
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So you outran a 650 Kawi? Hmmmmmmmm 35HP (kawi) vs 27HP (Rincon)2-5 Quads? I'v got to go find a new Rincon, to race that is. 
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2009 Kawi 750I EFI, Acerbis Handguards, Team Green, Warn 2500 Winch, Monster Energy Decals, 25" Mudlights XL's. VDI, Ricohet A-Arm & Underbody Skids, Streamline adjustable Steering Stabalizer, Fusionpowersports bumper, receiver hitch, Koplan Gun Tote
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turbogrits
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Subject: rincon muffler mod | 2007-01-25 08:26:10 |
Posts: 13
southeast, South Dakota , USA
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yes i did its my brother in laws kaw 650 prarie 4x4 he has that little box that advances the retarded timing other than that its bone stock. but i have basically a straight pipe and air intake snorkel removed, could take him with ease. my cousin just bought a brand new 07 polaris 800 sportsman bone stock with only 12 miles on i could take him (barely) but once it gets broke in i'm sure he will wax me. i just ordered a programmer for my rincon its runnin pretty lean on the top end. got a cobra hopefully it works half way decent
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